I'd been thinking about what Courtney has conveyed, from Conversations With Harvey, that the "Good ETs" consider our having made a choice to be imprisoned. That we need to make a choice through Disclosure and ask them for help getting out of this mess. That being it was our own will that we be here, we chose to be imprisoned.

I have a fundamental issue with this.

In human law, there is the concept of coercion. If you are manipulated or coerced into doing something, you are not always held responsible for your actions. This is because your free will was interfered with.

From the description of the Death Traps, it would seem that we were indeed manipulated and coerced into entering these traps via a complex ruse, meant to deceive us. The decision we were making at the time, to "enter into the light" is based on many falsehoods introduced into society, where our choice at the time was peace, love and healing (etc). In this case, it seems rather clear that the misinformed (most of us!) would NOT reasonably make the decision to enter into the death traps had we understood what it was and what it meant for us.

So, by definition of what Harvey (et al) has apparently said, they are forcing a definition of "Free Will" based on "their" perception and value systems. While they may have a more advanced view of governance, I ask if that position is inherently unfair -- should we not also be judged by the very laws we create, even when those laws are not perfect but meant to be constructive, and to facilitate a fair and just society? Should our choices of governance also represent our (human) collective will? That perspective is a modern one, based on the concept of a free democracy--as it's clear that other societies here on earth have very harsh "value systems" -- but it's pretty clear even then, that humans do not wish to be imprisoned or controlled or otherwise forced into a manner of living -- some societies "fall in line" under duress, the threat -- that's not free will, as far as I am concerned.

So our definition of "Free Will" here vs. Harvey (et al) seems to be in conflict.

What do you think?

I had similar thoughts. Death traps that wipe out your dead mind to program you lies. If that is not under duress, then I don't know what is.

The idea of being fanatical about free will doesn't explain it. How is that a reasonable consent?

That's like a school dean saying: "I'm sorry mr and mrs Fox, Jim the 1st grade teacher has been touching little Kimberly Fox inappropriate places the entire year. But I'm afraid I can't do anything because Kimberly never said 'no bad touch' so I guess it was her own free will"

Come on man what kind of bs is that.

My only suggestion for recourse is that I suppose the free will ETs just know that the military risk to direct confrontation is too great. They stand a better chance if the slaves internally caliphatize and build up their own mental armor from within, giving them the advantage of a voluntary insurrection.

But the argument that it's purely about our free will choice . . . is kind of malarky.

On the upside, the push for mass disclosure answers this problem. Because then finally it just doesn't matter what side to believe. Things get exposed. And the side wanting to expose is always the side I'm more willing to entertain.

Once we have full, official Disclosure, then further information has to come about. For example, if as Courtney (and Harvey) say that we must "ask for help" -- how do they imagine this happening and how information about the Death Traps will be made public in a forum that is official? I mean, seriously... let's talk about that, because I see it as both complicated and taking a long time... versus the sense of urgency that Courtney & Farsight has been promoting, quite blatantly.

Farsight remains quiet on this. As you suggest, I think there is probably more to it -- planning, other elements of this that are either at stake or at play.

I imagine "full disclosure" being (for example) when the President of the United States holds a national conference and spills the details. As others have suggested, that seems unlikely.

(on to a tangent)

I also imagine many people who have been the victim of "men in black" and other intimidation and possibly murder will want answers and compensation -- as I understand these programs hire private contractors extensively for these security related matters. Lawsuits against the State. Unless Congress enacts retroactive protection, due to "State Secrets" or some other clause.

I just feel like between this, "free will", the Death Traps and the complicated politics of this deserves more attention -- more than "let's photograph UFOs!" -- it's useful, yes, but we need information that further stimulates Disclosure.

Farsight always ends their videos with commentary that they read these forums, but I think it would be very helpful if they also participated.

Also, Farsight mentioned that part of the "death traps" system had been destroyed, back toward the end of the Pharaoh period.

Destroyed by whom? What happened? Let's also talk about that, because it suggests something else was going on -- and it likely didn't involve our "free will" to be trapped here. There are more questions than answers, but I feel this is entirely relevant to our current circumstances with Disclosure.

You are absolutley right, it's not free will when being coerced or deceived, manipulating your decision making process. That's why I talk about the concept of "informed consent" in the "Understanding the Free Will" thread.

We already know this concept in medical ethics, see "Nuremberg Code", quote:

"1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision..."

But Harvey is right, they face a dilemma. If they free the prisoners by force, the prisoners who don't know that they are imprisoned would see that as an invasion, leading to a lot of misunderstandings and suffering that should be avoided as best as we can. The disclosure process is needed in order to generate the possibility for an informed decision making process.

But we should keep in mind that Harvey can't be trusted, yet. Trust needs to be earned.

Here's a rational definition of free will:

"Free will is the ability to get rid of urges you once needed in order to survive, but are not needed anymore. You get aware of the urge, analyze it, realize how it doesn't benefit you anymore, and then decide to change your behavior. You don't have to do that. But doing it would be a benefit, as it helps to save energy that otherwise would be wasted."

So, exercising free will is the only way to get rid of conditioned behavior that would waste energy or even destroy you or your family over time if you keep ignoring it.

How can one ask for help from the confines of a prison when one doesn't know of the existence of the prison, the help available or the need for it?

Well, I hereby ask for help from any nice, friendly 'free-will' ETs out there. I do not delegate this to any government.

I think what everyone here is wanting is a place where people can ask questions or simply dialogue like a zoom chat or even an inteligence briefing..
Courtney has a co-host or something to pay attention and select the questions since it would be quite a few while he answers.
Or something like he did with Dazz in remote viewed talking about Remote viewing.

I believe it's a good way to engage with people and can also help bring everyone together in the same agenda.

Do you remember the circumstances of your coming to this planet?

Are you sure you didn't agree to all of the conditions here when you decided to come? Including the possibility of having your memories wiped?

It's sort of like when you voluntarily enter a psych ward - you give up your right to leave any time you want.

This site has shown that humans, even when repeatedly fried by death traps, can perceive across space and time. Quite reasonable, then, to assume these 'free will' ETs can do the same and more proficiently. They will be able to perceive the point when an is-be is taken against its will and subjected to the treatment here which greatly hampers any further ability to choose freely. People ask for help from above all the time, via such means as are available to them. The intent is definitely there.

Moreover, these 'free will' types, by their nature, should respect the will of the individual, not just the word from the top of a controlling organisation which assumes leadership through deceit.

The issue appears to be logistical rather than administrative. It might not require 'official' disclosure by the Farces of Dorkness which purport to represent the people, rather a personal acceptance of the situation by a sufficient number of individuals. This will come across as an energy shift. When it gets to a certain point the action can occur.