Hi Forrest.

"The cult of scio is crap". Check.

"So, my advice is to find an independent, experienced person who is still doing it (auditing, training) - or even just get some of the materials off the internet and do it yourself (better with someone with you)." That's a hard pass.

Cheers.

I think there are some replies above that are to someone else's comments, not mine :)

Well, that convo surely devolved. But back to Seth.... I still wonder what his angle was, there must have been one.

I said "Hi Forrest" as a poke at shiningbrow. He was responding to my post which he may have confused with one of yours. Nothing to see here. Case closed.

@MM

Still off topic, but...
""So, my advice is to find an independent, experienced person who is still doing it (auditing, training) - or even just get some of the materials off the internet and do it yourself (better with someone with you)." That's a hard pass."

Why? (serious question)

"I think there are some replies above that are to someone else's comments, not mine :)

Well, that convo surely devolved. But back to Seth.... I still wonder what his angle was, there must have been one."

Do you mean "Seth"? Or Jane Roberts?

@ Shiningbrow: Your first post started like this: "Firstly, I haven't read any Seth stuff...". The subject being discussed is the Seth material. So much for being relevant.

I am not interested in reading nor discussing anything related to Scientology. Please accept my point of view. Over and out.

Back to Seth....

Seth has often referred to himself as a disembodied personality gestalt. The way he has referenced himself and of his larger associations (ie: a collective) makes me think about how Farsight has warned us about channelers who, although very honest, are being deceived by alien beings (such as "Ra") to further confuse humanity -- as clever as Seth was (is), I wonder how his description of himself may have differentiated him from these beings who are involved in keeping humanity imprisoned here.

Seth repeatedly emphasizes that we create our own reality and that there is no other rule. I go back to my reference to consciousness and how these beings that keep us imprisoned here operate to keep us "believing" in false narratives -- here is the catch I think Seth may have been working toward. We must analyze our belief systems... look into them, what are they, etc. These days, we have more information widely available to humanity, so collective consciousness is going to alter. This, I imagine (?) is a risk to our captors -- because a trap doesn't work well when you know it's there.

Thoughts?

@MM
"The subject being discussed is the Seth material. So much for being relevant."

Actually, you seem to have missed half of the thread title - the subjecting being discussed is "death traps", and in particular not being mentioned by Seth. (If this part of the subject line wasn't mentioned, I wouldn't even have read this thread)

People who have been through scio (whether formally through the cult, or formally through the off-shoot Freezone or independents, of even those who have just worked by themselves through the materials available on the web) have experienced these Death Traps. So, my referencing of it was as a suggestion to KNOW FOR YOURSELF (whatever that means) rather than just listening to what someone else has to say on the matter!

Thank you for this thread... I first came across the Seth materials when I was in my teens working at a New Age bookshop (or perhaps just before I started working there). One of my 'mentors' was interested in them. I didn't get that feel, and had a 'steer clear' vibe.

Now, I was just meditating a few minutes ago, thinking of my reply here (yeah, I have problems with focus), and I had this sudden flash of 'reptilian' with regards to Seth... and it occurred to me that the feeling I had all those years ago was somewhat similar. Of course, this could be crap! So, I might just have to put them on my reading list to investigate.

But, I think it's something that we should individually figure out for ourselves (such as by RV).

And, yes, the vast majority of our 'spiritual' experiences are going to be based upon what we already believe. Very rarely does that change (especially as after any experience, one generally tries to fit it into the current paradigm... Christians are very unlikely to suddenly change to a Hindu belief system, and vice versa - for example). Those who are questioning their beliefs may get (or interpret) something different.

So, Forrest, yes... I do get the impression there's a deception going on - with enough truth to keep people hanging on. The New Age stuff also seems to be a trap.(with some truth in it). "Go towards the light. Higher beings will be waiting for you. You need to keep reincarnating until you're "learned" all you have to, then you can evolve and raise your vibrations"... yeah, sounds like a great way to encourage people to keep coming back without arguing. AND with the added benefit of it convincing other people that this shit is all ok, and that they should also be happy to be here to 'evolve'.

Here's a thought... could those 'beings' that come through be deceived themselves? After all, (presuming the DTs are real), I can't see a good reason why someone couldn't go through one, get their memories erased, be taught about this way of existence and evolution, but not re-embody down here, and instead stay on that side for just this reason - to help convince us gumps still alive that this is the way of things... Especially since (I've heard) that there are far too many souls (call them what you want) that want to incarnate here, but there aren't enough bodies (yet).

Hi Forrest, Del, Mysticman and Shiningbro... I just read through your interesting discussions. I read 'Seth Speaks' a long time ago when I was not too much 'into that'. I remember finishing the book with the thought: only two things of practical value here. One is that cutting your sleeping time into two or more parts can be good for you and the other that sleeping with your feet (or head, I couldn't find that again) to the north is not so good for you. Which at that time was very diappointing to me. What can we do...
Since you all seem to know a lot about this, I have a question. If I understand the DT correctly then you only get to lose your memory when you enter into a new body. So when you are in the 'in between state' you have your memories especially of you last life where you (like we now), know about the DT. So you can decide not to incarnate and explore this 'state' to the fullest and enjoy yourself. I would very much like to meet many people there and maybe even discuss the DT :-)
So u question is: have I understood this correctly. In which case, for me, there is not much incentive to avoid the 'white light'.

I believe Seth said that facing the North is the ideal position for sleep. I was recently thinking about that, actually.

My sleep is already messy, I can't imagine splitting it up -- especially with a full time job, where that would be impossible :) But I do like naps and find them helpful.

My understanding of the Death Traps is that it's managed by an AI core, though it does require regular maintenance otherwise. I would imagine whomever set up this system has, over time, grown it into a fantastic fantasy world that lures people into it (that's the primary goal, apparently, to get you to agree to enter it "through the light"). There must also be more advanced elements that we wouldn't understand -- such as its ability to work with your consciousness (and memories) to determine what triggers you (tempts you) to the trap, etc. It may be like a series of incredible virtual realities.

I read that not everyone in the DT is incarnated, so I wonder where the others are "stored" -- so there would need to be things for them to engage in, to keep them "in" and "occupied with" the system. This being a system that has evolved over millennia.

As for our memories, I read that we get "zapped" and returned here with a "blank slate" so to speak, but from other readings I believe that ultimately our identity and memories are still maintained at the ISBE level.

There is a LOT we (I) don't know about these traps, how they work, etc. I've been encouraging Farsight to invest more time into discussing them, as I feel it is THE most important thing for people to know, which would be very supportive of Disclosure.

There are many elements of this phenomenon I don't understand -- contradicting stories, different theories. But it's clear that our cultures have been aware of the Death Traps throughout history (ie: the Gnostic "Archons").

In Farsight's latest Harvey video, it is suggested that we can look for help when we pass on, that there are others ("the good ETs") operating to try and free us. But your belief systems would need to permit for that.

Back to Seth. His material is so intellectually rich, but I can imagine he may have left a breadcrumb trail of clues -- I just don't know what they would be outside of his emphasis on our belief systems and how utterly important that is to our experience of reality. I also find it horrifying that, in that theory, I would have co-created being in this "prison" reality -- something I'd like to not be in, in this context and in a limited container.

Finally, I wonder what it's like to be alive, free of any of this DT tech and in a body (or "container") that allows for your full faculties to operate.

Hopefully within our present incarnations we will get our answers and become free of the DT.

Hi Forrest, about sleep; I once had an indian teacher who said that in his tradition you should not sleep with your head towards the north (which would be facing the south). All other (sic) positions were okay. So facing the north (looking towards the north) would be fine. I then remembered that Seth said something about that but couln't find it in the book as I was not prepared to read the book again to find it. I just now tried again and could not find it in the 'sleep department'. It would be nice to see if they agree on that.

I agree about the sleep being difficult to organise and naps being very helpfull. A friend of mine experimented with sleep, all kinds of patters but gave up and returned to 'normal' since he didn't find it helpful and veeeeery impractical in 'real life'.

Back to the DT. As far as I can remember in the FS project about them it was not clear to me when the memory erasing took place. In the books of Michael Newton (where people remember their 'in between' lives) they seem to have all their memories with them. So that would mean that 1. They are stil there and rather easy to get back to. 2. The memory erasing only took place when entering the womb. Is that also your understanding of the process?
For the rest: yes, we stilll know so little for sure. And people that pretend to know often differ, which makes it mind boggling. What we need is more 'Farsights'. People who work as a team in order to verify each others observations and then work together in discussing between groups what is the consensus. That might take a while, haha.

Oh yes, Forrest: one more thing. As you say Harvey says we can get help. Problem is: if the DT are so sophisticated: why couldn't they fake that also? We need a tool or faculty to detect deception. In the end that would be trusting our own compass and not be dependant on other beings. As you said: I wonder how that would feel.

Hi Hubert.

RE: facing north (or not). Not exactly off topic, but Robert Monroe's Institute has their people facing N-S , with head towards N, which apparently improves OOBEs. However, I haven't yet come across that in the audio material (that I recall) - but then, maybe because it's not that important, or they realise that it can be a bit difficult to arrange one's home like that.

I have read another suggestion for the same thing, the only difference being for just simple OOBE as a quick one-off (not the full GE tapes).

RE: DTs... my personal experience is the mind wipe occurs within the DT itself - along with (and as part of) the torture. Well, actually, the torture IS (causes, and has as its purpose) the mind-wipe (along with the implants - such as the need to return to a human body - urgently!) There does still appear to have residual emotions left over - hence phobias and compulsions can remain (You died in a fire, you have a fear of them... etc)

But, yeah, I've also seen it written that the wipe only occurs when entering the womb, and that you have complete control of yourself up until that point.

"For the rest: yes, we stilll know so little for sure. And people that pretend to know often differ, which makes it mind boggling."

Yeah - that's always a problem!

Hubert,

There's another remote viewer, Brett Stuart, who has a video around on Moksha -- where he comments on a series of remote views into these death traps and goes a bit further into it, including the beings that created them. I'm not sure what I think about his commentary, but the description includes real flesh-and-blood beings that have created a "space" to live in where time doesn't exist, they install these modules around the galaxy and it allows them to pop in and out of our reality. What I found most disturbing and troubling in his commentary, is that when a soul is recycled through these "traps" these beings take off some energy (our stress?) that is used in a larger power mechanism, but that each successive time this happens, the soul becomes less and less until it is fully depleted, relegating it to a wandering "ghost" that has nothing left.

That had me pensive for a while and I'm not entirely sure what I think or believe about it.

One problem I have with the Seth materials is that he'll get into a discussion about something, then say he'll continue it later (LOL) and it can feel disparate -- and I end up getting lost as the material is very intellectually rich. But it is something that warrants re-reading, as I seem to gain different understandings after each reading.

That's one of the problems we always face in these phenomenon, is someone else has a different narrative to offer and then we have to (and should) question what we know. But, as Farsight has pointed out, there is a LOT of disinformation that is intentionally placed to keep us off the so-called "scent trail" and to render confusion. Especially in the channeling community -- where Farsight has said emphatically that the "good ETs" do not enter into channeling at all, it's all direct communication. I tend to believe this as it would be a part of a very well-evolved and sophisticated mechanism to placate a "prison planet" and to keep people focused to and within it. Hence, Seth's edge on being "You create your own reality. There is no other rule." -- that being about consciousness, so naturally our "captors" would want to impact our belief systems and in turn have us create a false/negative reality based upon those false beliefs that benefits their agenda.