I'm very happy with the November 2024 ET Board Meeting, but there is more to be said:
Aziz mentioned that "good and bad is not a thing in nature".
Well, that's not correct, because he's still applying a limited understanding of nature that doesn't reflect reality. That limited understanding is the result of a mental programming. It's divide and conquer, like we are "civilized" and nature is "predation". But why are you divorcing yourself and civilization from nature in the first place? Why is civilization in your thinking not a natural concept?
Let me try to explain it this way:
Nature essentially consists of two "kingdoms", and what most people call nature is what I call the "first kingdom" and what essentially is the "animal kingdom". Therefore, leaving this animal kingdom behind by not behaving like an animal anymore feels like leaving nature, and civilization becomes that unnatural thing that somehow stands in opposition to nature. But, is that even possible?
So, how can we live without preying on each other when even the tree will eat you like the Erdtree in Elden Ring devours the lost civilizations beneath it?
Is it true that nature is just predation and nothing else? Things eating things aeon after aeon, with no greater morality behind it?
You need to understand this:
The so called animal kingdom is where survival "in the flesh" has a higher priority than moral principles of good and evil. Survival is the highest aspiration. And it needs to be this way because animals, by definition, lack the cognitive capabilities to understand the natural law that defines the difference between good and evil. Animals, by definition, lack moral discernment, and therefore need violence in order to survive.
So, what's the second kingdom? You could call it "civilization", and you enter that kingdom by developing sapience, which is the cognitive ability to discern good and evil based on the understanding of natural moral law. In other words: You recognize that you own yourself – which is the moment when Adam and Eve became aware of their nakedness – and realizing with it that everybody else owns themselves, too. It's the recognition of responsibility – the ability to give different responses than animals because of free will.
Now, questions arise:
Does the tree devour you when you are alive?
Do you devour the tree when you don't have to?
Do animals kill each other when they don't have to?
Do you understand the power you have that animals don't have?
Do you understand the consequences of your choices?
Do you understand what it means to make amends for the harm you've done, even if it was necessary to survive?
Think about that.
And now that you don't have to be perfect... you can be good.
Re : «The so called animal kingdom is where survival "in the flesh" has a higher priority than moral principles of good and evil. Survival is the highest aspiration. And it needs to be this way because animals, by definition, lack the cognitive capabilities to understand the natural law that defines the difference between good and evil. Animals, by definition, lack discernment, and therefore need violence in order to survive.»
So, like, have you ever raised dogs in & sold them from a Kennel before ? One thing about animals is that, despite being from the same species, they will have different temperaments. Some people have dogs and/or cats that are very well-behaved, whilst others have cats and/or dogs that seriously tear everything up & destroy anything that they can get their teeth or claws into, thus, I don't know if I necessarily buy into the claim that animals lack or don't have discernment.
I used to keep some mice as pets, and, the one that managed to survive & remain alive for the longest had a kind of «discernment» of its own; I would leave various types of food into the cage where I kept her in, and, she would always go for the healthiest-foods first, whilst ignoring the food without any nutritional-value, unless there was literally nothing else to eat; get this, I had potato-chips in there one day (non-salted), yet, she wouldn't even TOUCH those potato-chips (you KNOW that Potato-Chips must be REALLY BAD for you if even a MOUSE refuses to even TOUCH the Potato-Chips).
Between cookies, what the stores claim to be mouse-treats, etc., she basically didn't bother with those so-called «mouse-treats» once I fed her other foods (granted, I was feeding her foods like steaks, fish, chicken, hamburger-meats, berries, vegetables, shrimp, and the flies that I moved into her cage which got zapped by my bug-zapper; she REALLY LIKED eating flies apparently). Out of all of the different types of vegetables that I provided for her, she liked celery the best, and, rarely ate the carrots, whilst eating other types of vegetables with a frequency somewhere between the celery & the carrots; seriously, I kid you not, put a variety of foods into a mouse-cage, provided that they haven't been brain-damaged or had their sense compromised by vaccinations, and, they will go to the healthy food & consume it first (although I'm not going to eat ze bugz so pass on that one).
Granted, creatures like mice may not necessarily have a «moral» discernment, but, dogs (and even dolphins) have actually shown & demonstrated what can be called «discernment» with actually numerous cases existing where they had literally saved human-lives...
"I don't know if I necessarily buy into the claim that animals lack or don't have discernment."
You are right, what I meant to say is they lack moral discernment, or sapience. Thanks for pointing this out. 👍🏻