I was thinking about the idea that denying the free will of another is evil. But the more I thought about it, I began to ask myself, is it really?

Let's say you have a cat or a dog, and you obviously love your pet. You, who are more intelligent and complex than it, probably understand it more than it understands you and your feelings, thoughts and intentions. Even though there is a loving relationship, you are obviously the master in the relationship, which requires denying your pet free will. Could this describe the relationship our ET overlords have with us?

Imagine going to the vet, which your pet hates. You try to communicate with it, but obviously your pet is not intelligent enough to understand you. So you end up deceiving it by luring it into a cage or tricking it into thinking it's going for a walk. Is this the same thing that's happening to humans on Earth on a grand scale? That our overlords would be possibly more than happy to do away with the deception but they know we don't speak the same language or have the same understanding that this slave relationship is "for our own good" (like the pet going to the vet) and we can't even begin to comprehend how it's good for us because we're just not intelligent enough?

I'm just spitballing, let me know what you guys think.

"Even though there is a loving relationship, you are obviously the master in the relationship, which requires denying your pet free will."

It can't be a loving relationship and a master-slave relationship at the same time. People who love their pets wouldn't see themselves as their masters, because slavery is not necessary to make the relationship work, even with pets. If you have or had a dog that loved you, you know what I mean.

To make it more clear, let's not talk about pets, but children. You know it's in their best interest to go to the dentist, but they don't see it like that, of course. How do you get them to go to the dentist? Trick them? Then you would lose their trust, and they will never want to follow you again. Bribe them? It works, but that way, you teach them manipulative behavior, and you need to be very careful with that.

The knowledge most parents lack is how children actually learn.

Yes, it means that you as a parent have to sit in the dentist chair first. If you want your kid to brush its teeth, you have to brush your teeth together. If you want your kid to be honest, you have to be honest to your kid.

When I'm around young kids, I think of the same thing. You have to yell at them with anger in your voice to stop them from running through a busy parking lot.

On the large scale, maybe you are correct. Perhaps its just the master's human minions that do the bad, oppressive things and the master does not wish those things on us. The world has been a relatively orderly place for at least the last 80 years or so.

"You have to yell at them with anger in your voice to stop them from running through a busy parking lot."

Yes, to make them aware of the imminent danger. There's no problem with that. But, have you ever considered to apologize for yelling at them even if it was justified? What would they learn if you did that?

"Perhaps its just the master's human minions that do the bad, oppressive things and the master does not wish those things on us."

Human minions are or wish to be masters to other humans. The solution is to stop being a master, so whoever still is a master actually wishes to be oppressive.

"The world has been a relatively orderly place for at least the last 80 years or so."

➡️ https://www.farsightprime.com/forums/general/70639-the-fear-of-chaos

The first video, timestamp 9:08...

Manuel, you appear to be stuck in relentless problem solving mode. The world needs problem solvers, but it greatly degrades your quality of life to be stuck in this mode all the time.

Try niacinamide. You may see impactful results. And if there are results, maybe study the work of biologist Ray Peat.

My impression is that the galactic federation (Harvey's group being a subset) is more toward the idea that you let the dog doe if you can't convince it to like the vet. It seems the Domain is not opposed to these temporary sentences to prison planets as a sort of punishment for heinous crime. But our current "owners" seem to think no time stamp is necessary

I think with this we come to a crucial point to discuss within the "Good-ET - human ISBE" relationship. Let me start with a provocative question:

DO THE GOOD ETs HAVE A SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST AGENDA?

Modern constitutions like of the US have many clauses to protect the individual (ISBE) against excessive encroachments of the state. This is much different in socialist systems where the collective is in the foreground and the individual is less important. (Mao took away the fishhooks from those living at the river, because everybody had to eat rice.)
In Germany, e.g. it is even forbidden to shoot down a highjacked plane, even if the highjackers threaten to fly it into a nuclear power plant. The government is not allowed to take such a decision of balancing individual lifes against a collective wellbeing.
The contracts between the Bad ETs and the governments must be/stay secret because it is against the protective laws to deliver a citizen to torture or abuse. If such contracts would be uncovered, these would be declared unconstitutional, void and the government would have to terminate them. Similar with contracts somebody has been tricked into under false pretext.
So why do the "Free Will ETs" respect contracts which have been closed under circumstances which would be unlawful under the law the ISBEs have given themselves under free will to protect the (individual) free will? The power to take decisions for a government on behalf of the individual citizens is limited by the law. A high court would declare such a contract nil and void from its very closure and not from the point in time when the contract had been uncovered or challenged. Any citizen could dispute the validity of such a contract at a federal court.
Is intergalactic contract law different? More socialist oriented? Has an individual ISBE no options under these rules?

@Elemi

"Nope, the worst thing you can do to a child is to force it, may it be for good or not. I sometimes can still taste the smell of the gas in my lungs they used to seduce me forcefully when I got panic as a child before a surgery. That did something sustainable."

In hindsight, was the surgery necessary to save your life, and if so, would there have been other ways to make it happen? If it wasn't necessary to save your life, what would have been the consequence of not having the surgery?

@Jon

"So when they made us wear these silly masks for covid I kept gagging, but I was also in a very angry state most of the time."

I just refused to wear them, leading to a lawsuit. I'm still fighting that.

@Rey M

"I think you're contradicting your own self because you take the position that personal agency trumps everything else, but if they don't understand you or that "it's good for them", then you can deny them their agency and force it down their throats."

That's why I said "bite the bullet and risk the relationship". For example, your dog needs surgery in order to survive. He also panics when he sees a vet. Forcing the dog to undergo the surgery will traumatize him to a certain extent. He may survive, but he won't ever trust you again. Can you let him die?

Now imagine it's your child.

The difference between a child and a dog is that a child can understand why it was necessary when it grows older. Of course you would have to work on the trauma afterwards. There a psychologists who are specialized on that.

"As an aside, another example I can think of is when your pet dog starts barking and acting aggressively when it sees another dog. Of course you try to communicate to it that it shouldn't act in such a way because it's "irrational", but it obviously doesn't understand you so you just have to leash it, yank on the leash, whatever."

No. Just pinch it in the side with your fingers, like the leading dog of the pack would bite without injuring. The dog understands that instinctively. The leash doesn't work because there were no leashes in the pack. Talk to a dog whisperer, there's also a famous TV series by the same name.

"Perhaps reincarnation and death traps could be a similar thing? We don't understand it, we don't want it, but they still make us go through it anyway. Does it mean they don't care about us or love us? Is it exploitative?"

Just ask yourself: What's the purpose of losing your memories again and again? Try to raise a dog or a child while at the end of every week, the dog or child forgets everything. Would it work?

➡️ https://www.farsightprime.com/forums/general/68703-what-is-the-point-of-the-prison-planet#post-381489

"The Law of Free Will is the main law, but individuated for each being as to how they themselves measure their own free Will."

Absolutely not. Free will is objectively measurable on the basis of "informed consent".

"If they wish to give over their free Will then that is their choice."

No, because you only wish to do that if you don't know the actual consequences, in other words: You are not informed what it means, and therefore cannot consent.

Just ask yourself: Can you get your free will back if you want to? The other being would say: It was your free will to hand over your free will to me, so you can't have it back. But that's a logical contradiction: The other being uses free will to get your consent, but then denies it if you don't want to consent anymore.

"Everything comes down to choice even if that choice is under duress or trickery."

Correct. The simple truth is: You have the right to say no in every situation as long as you are not the aggressor who is initiating the violence. Duress or trickery doesn't create consent. They try to feign it that way, but it's not real. If someone forced or tricked you, you can get out of that state whenever you want, by your own free will, which cannot be taken away. If the other being doesn't want that, you have the right to fight it with every force that is necessary to free you.

"The reason those greys can abduct some people and not others is because those people carry souls from this soul group so the greys have a claim that those beings belong to them."

That claim is a lie. They don't have the right to abduct anybody. They just do it because they are evil, and then they tell you it's because they have a somehow "legitimate" claim over your body or soul. That's just a fucking lie, and you are fucked if you believe that bullshit.

As always, Jon, you seem to believe their bullshit, and you even spread it like as if you were a missionary for the fallen Anunnaki.

"DO THE GOOD ETs HAVE A SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST AGENDA?"

Many have. The idea of the collective standing above the individual is very common, mostly among insectoid societies who operate like an ant colony, as well as authoritarian societies who use the will of the collective as an excuse to override the will of the individual.

"Is intergalactic contract law different?"

There is no intergalactic contract law. There is moral relativism, which is the false belief that you can make up what is right and what is wrong, and there is moral objectivism, which is the knowledge that morality is based on logical universal law that no ISBE can change.

If you are an individual, you have free will, no matter what society or species you belong to. All the wars and holocausts in this universe stem from moral relativism. It's beings or societies who want to force "their law" upon others, and they will always say that they decide what a contract is and what you are allowed and not allowed to do.

The simple truth is: It's only a contract if both parties wanted it based on free informed consent, meaning there was no violence, no coercion, and no trickery/deception involved. This is what the authoritarians (the archons) don't want to accept.

➡️ https://www.farsightprime.com/forums/general/71265-understanding-the-cause